For those more acquainted with Islam, there is no instant more eyebrow-raising than a certain blogger called “Muslims against Sharia” turning up somewhere in a random comment section, accusing everyone of ‘Islamofascism’. Upon looking closer to this strange figure, .. Actually, let somebody explain who has done the research and proven how highly fraudulent this odious bunch is, who probably can’t tell a minbar from a mehrab.
So here’s a big shout out to Rev. Jim Sutter for the great effort and for leading a very interesting blog.
Update: After the torrent of comments and hate mail over here and over at Gates of Vienna vs. the World vs. LGF, it gets even more interesting!
Update numero duo: It’s official! Solid evidence that the “Muslim” against Sharia isn’t any more Muslim than a decorated Christmas tree. From the comments below: (For the record, this is the same user as sewer-mouthed “Muslims against Sharia” on the GoV vs. LGF thread linked above):
This “Muslim” against Sharia refuses to say the most basic and natural thing a Muslim would say, thus removing all doubt that they’re not a Muslim to start with. One second he/she/it is whining and moaning about rumours against its pour soul, and the next moment it’s acting all arrogant towards those who offer a chance to debunk them. Not exactly the easiest way out.
And how’s this for consistency? If you really cared that much about your religious privacy, why are you masquerading around with the title “Muslim” for the whole world to see? Tough luck, douche, you’ve blown your chance, and here I am, calling you out on a public blog for it. I’ve put up with you long enough, but this is a plain insult to my intelligence. So, all together now:
Screw you, your lying and your behaviour worthy of scoundrels. This is a testimony to the true nature of the “counter-jihadosphere”. Lying, fraudulent, corrupt bunch of pirates, hiding behind an allegedly good cause, while harboring hate towards anything Islamic. The true, good natured Muslims of this world will continue living in peace with their environments and will never go down. Your blood boiling at this very fact makes it even better.
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The Sphinx
Personal note:
So where I’ve been? Good question.. Apparently a writer’s block, along with a healthy dose of university, and weird circumstances that shifted me away from Munich for a month for my Bachelor-thesis project are all complicit. Once I get my life back, I will probably return into fully-fledged blogging mode, and hopefully it’ll be about more than just what jobs to take up when fortune is not on your side.
Until then, the Sphinx remains silent.
Officially declared by wingnuts. Click 
Amazing that *anyone* would even take the “research” this con-artist seriously. I suggest you do your own investigation of this felon and serial liar.
http://www.exposingsutter.com
http://www.phonyrev.com
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/Sutter.htm
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=subject:“+revjimsutter”
It is fascinating that when Muslims take responsibility for a terrorist act nobody doubts their authenticity, but when Muslims stand up against terrorism and Islamic supremacism, every every Islamonazi sh**bag [Mind your language - ed.] feels compelled to accuse them of being fake Muslims.
Thank you very much for proving my point better than I ever can.
“Islamonazi sh**bag” – Just as predicted by the first sentence of this post. You’re just angry for being exposed as a fraud, that’s what. But I have news for you, throwing a strawman argument at the wrong person has “YOU FAIL!!
” written all over it.
People like you represent me just as little as terrorists do. Islam and the Qur’an are here to stay, and God’s willing there will be a day where there are no more terrorists who abuse this religion for their own corrupt purposes, and no more hypocrites like you, who act Muslim while hating everything Islamic.
But alas, God has addressed you munafiqeen so often.. No wonder you want to create a dreamworld Islam where even your type is tolerated..
As for LadyPredator, you’re lucky I was able to fish your comment out of the spam filter.. Probably should’ve left it there though. A bit strange, several sites throwing crap at one person. Judging from the short time I’ve known this guy, and the even shorter time I’ve been exposed to you.. I think I already have my preference.
And is that all you can do? Throw a few stupid links at me, with not much credibility to start with? How about you actually disprove what he’s been writing about the Hypocrites against Sharia? Oh wait, reformislam here has already proven Sutter and myself right.
Well then, tough luck!
I caught you! Posting on our blog on a different blog…what am I going to do with you? Well, if you’re going to post here you might as well post about these little MAS freaks….still, come home to govvs! Come back to us Sphinx!
=)
I’m not going anywhere, don’t worry.. And the fun at Govvs is just only starting! Being silent here (save a few comments), doesn’t mean I won’t join in the fun every now and then.
You hear that, MASers? Get your free slap-up-the-back-of-the-head at govvs.blogspot.com ! Fun and laughter for the entire family!
Why should I be angry? Because you’re too dumb to distinguish between Muslims and Islamonazi sh**bags? [What did I just say about language? My my, the manners some people have.. - ed.]
For your information, I’ve been living as a Muslim my entire life, and in a Muslim society for 80% of it. You can trust me to recognize a real Muslim when I see one. And even though I’m no Islamic scholar, my experience goes as far as figuring out who is actually too stupid to understand the Qur’an and who isn’t, just as well as distinguishing between sincere advocates of peace and raging hypocrites.
But if it grinds your gears that faithful Muslims aren’t subscribing to your agenda in droves, then I really can’t help you.
Oh, and if you decide to use profanity one more time, despite being warned twice, you’re comment will end up in limbo. I’m serious.
Oh, Sphinx, I cuss like a sailor. These people are somewhat amusing though, what with their insistence upon being Muslim “reformers” whose presence online is only felt when people criticize their non- (and actually ANTI-) Muslim blog pals.
I can’t believe these nuts, all crawling out of the woodwork to be all lewd in our comments sections. Why wouldn’t they be rebutting the claims instead of insulting us for posting these claims, exactly? They’re giving themselves away all the more. Oh, I do love funny web happenings!
Actually, I’ll repeat that question over at govvs…
The fact that you are willing to *believe* a man who has spent his life pretending to me something he is not says a lot about *your* veracity!
Sutter claims he is a decorated war veteran, the Navy says not
http://www.archive.org/download/SutterFiles2/Sutter_FOIA.pdf
Sutter claims that he is disabled but could not to any MD to attest to that, so he forged his own medical records and presented them to a federal Judge.
http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/68/68.F3d.476.94-4329.html
Sutter has no “degrees” and is not a veteran. He can not speak Arabic as he claims
His “exposes” are mostly fiction from a man who desperately wants to noticed as someone important.
You can find ladypredator’s “beef” on my site by searching for “Jeanette Runyon”. She’s the hate monger who bought a baby (yes, bought) in the Ukraine for God knows what purposes, and is now under house arrest, forbidden from using a computer. If you want a laugh, plug her name into Google. Be careful, Jeanette, you don’t want your PO to catch you again.
She follows me all over the net, throwing out these phony websites that she and the hate monger from thereligionofpeace dreamed up. They’re using the old ad hominem ploy, hoping people will not then bother to read the well documented facts on chasingevil.org. Personally, I think she has a crush on me.
Lex, this reformislam clown just had a comment deleted for naughty language. Oh, and in the same breath accused me of not being a Muslim at all. But substance? Squat. No rebuttals, no counterarguments, no intelligent debate, nothing. Better so, we don’t have to do any work to prove our point
If that were a school essay, it’d be worth a shiny F. Some people just don’t try hard enough.
Don’t worry Jim, even if (really, really big ‘if’ there) some of these links were true, the fact stands that nothing this bunch has done came even remotely close to disproving your post about MAS. I’m not willing to take their word for it though.
No wonder these people are so furious..
Aww, at least send me a copy of their lewd comments before you delete them! I wanna see!
Ah I see Sutter continues to post his defamation. As always Sutter lies. I don’t have a P.O. I wasn’t arrested for “human trafficking” In fact I and my daughter are the victims of traffickers. But Sutter has never be interested in the truth. He has spun the fiction about me being in the Pen, except of course I am still on the internet.He has also liked and indicated there were a whole slew of people arrested with me. No proof of course except the voices in his head.
You should know that Sutter has a very real history of aggression toward people of color. By 1990, Sutter had reached the pinnacle of his abbreviated working career after landing a job as an agent for the Better Business Bureau in Cleveland. With this position came some measure of influence over others… power which Sutter promptly abused. By the time he was fired, Jim Sutter had managed to involve his employer as a defendant in multiple lawsuits by companies that either hired African-Americans or claimed connections with Africa. (One of the lawsuits also involved Sutter’s defamation of a Muslim-owned business).http://www.ahcuah.com/lawsuit/newsuit/ohio/musa.htm
One of the persons that Sutter singled out for particular abuse was reportedly a representative of Sierra Leone, a West African nation. Claiming to have received death threats and suffered a knife attack, Sutter also accused this man of stalking him. The police later determined that Sutter had invented the entire story (including mailing the death threats to himself).http://ia311225.us.archive.org/3/items/SutterFiles/Former_BBB_official_pleads_guilty_to_lying_about_car_to_FBI.pdf
I question *anyone* who used this compulsive liar as a source of information.
Rather than throwing around ad-hominem attacks, why can’t you just attempt to refute his post on MAS? Is that really too much to ask?
I know the truth is not on the side of that bunch, but you’re not even trying to defend them. Obsessive usage of a fallacy just don’t work.
On the same site that Jim Sutter posted this piece on Muslims, he also insisted that I am under federal indictment for money laundering and wire fraud. He is also claiming that charges have been filed on his behalf by the authorities and that he is scheduled to testify as a witness.
Obviously, none of this is true. He even says that he doesn’t even know my real name… so how can he be privy to criminal charges? He has also made up fictitious charges against Lady Predator and others against whom he pursues various petty grudges.
Over the years, he has pretended to have terminal cancer, claimed to have earned the Navy Cross, and he once conned a rape victim out of $22,000 for “counseling services” while pretending to be licensed. Just recently he got kicked out of his church for making up a phony story about a knife attack. And this isn’t the worst of it by far!
So, it’s up to you as to whether you want to risk the credibility of Realm of the Sphinx on the word of a convicted felon and forger. If integrity is of the least bit important to you, however, then it only takes a small bit of effort to find out if Mr. Sutter is worth taking seriously – presuming that this is your intent as well.
Links are provided on the Phony Rev site to his criminal history and the ridiculous personal claims that he has made about himself over the years. There is also the information necessary for verifying his military history (or lack thereof) with the department of personnel records, which is also free of charge.
On the other hand, if the people on this side of the debate are so desperate to believe what they want that they are willing to ally themselves with a verified fraud and con artist, then by all means continue to make fools out of yourself by swallowing Mr. Sutter’s fiction. He isn’t the only one amused.
This is obviously very hard for people like you to understand (judging that you come from thereligionofpeace.com, a highly untrustworthy entity on its own), so let me make it very clear.
I’m not here to debate whether or not Jim Sutter has done whatever you’re accusing him of. The point is very simply:
Somebody has written a thorough and spot-on piece about “Muslims against Sharia” and exposed them for what they are, only to be reinforced by the “Muslims against Sharia” themselves through their behaviour on this and on other threads. And until now, nobody has attempted to prove him wrong on this point.
So will somebody now please address this very aspect, so we can get this discussion going? Thank you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
I’m not sure how anyone can be this naïve, but if you still insist on taking the “Reverend” Jim Sutter seriously, then it’s your funeral. Just don’t think that you are being cute by linking to a Wikipedia entry on the ad-hominem argument, while at the same time defending an article that relies mostly on this exact fallacy.
Do you want more reasons not to take this Sutter’s writing seriously? Here, let’s just examine the first three “facts” that he poses to support his contention that “Muslims against Sharia” aren’t really Muslims:
1)They “use a tremendous amount of obscenities on other sites.”
If so then why doesn’t he provide references? Why, because he made it up, of course. As I pointed out before, that’s what he does.
2)They don’t always use the “required peace be upon him” when referring to Muhammad.
Neither did Bukhari or Ibn Ishaq… or most of the Muslims that I have ever spoken with. That’s because it isn’t a requirement. Sutter made this rule up as well.
3)They want to “rewrite the Qur’an” which Sutter says is a “holy book delivered from God to an angel to Muhammad.”
But wait, I thought Sutter claims to be a Christian minister. If so, then how can he also believe that God curses Christians for believing in the Trinity (Sura 5 and 8)?
So, there is enough just within the first three sentences for any reasonable person to realize that the author has no clue as to what he is talking about. In fact, if you’ve followed Sutter’s writing for any length of time, you know that his game is to mix benign Internet facts with rampant speculation and deliberate mistruth. He is not a journalist, just someone who is occasionally able to fool gullible people with lofty-sounding rhetoric.
As for the rest, I will be glad to address anything else that you want to raise from the piece – provided that it doesn’t qualify as “ad-hominem” (out of respect for your aversion to such illogic, of course).
- By the way, I don’t mind your having identified me without asking, but it would probably be wise to respect the WordPress privacy policy in the future.
Well hello there Glen, long time no see. What’s with “killing the messenger” here? And, BTW, Sphinx is my co-blogger nowadays and my friend, so if you insult or attack him I consider it being myself as well.
Now that that’s out of the way, why is no one here supporting or arguing for MAS instead of just attacking Sutter? That they use lewd language, well I know plenty of Muslims who also do this, but as for examples from MAS? They left more than enough in comments, the very comments that caused anyone to get interested in them in the first place. In fact, if MAS could refrain from following insults to Pamela Geller all over the web and leaving really nasty comments to those posting these attacks on good ol’ Pammycakes, no one may ever have noticed them! After all, one of their awards went to Geert Wilders. Think about that, a Muslim group giving a web award to a man who compares the Qur’an to Mein Kampf. No one finds that even a tad bit fishy?
With a group of supposedly around 40 bloggers not a single one of them ever places (PBUH) after the name of Muhammad (PBUH) (see, even I just did it). It may be just a common practice rather than a requirement, but that would follow that at least someone at MAS (if there really are that many Muslims there) would occasionally do this. Sutter hardly made that “rule” up, go look at any comments section on YT on a Muslim video, and you’ll see (PBUH)s galore! And guess what, all of those people aren’t Sutter. Oddly as well, the letters I have received from Muslims more recently AND back in the shameful period when I was frequently linked at TROP all were chock full of (PBUH)s.
Lady and Glen, so Sutter has done things you have issue with. That’s why you have a whole site devoted to him. Why bring these things up here and now? The issue is MAS and their credibility or even their reality. Yet NO one is stepping up to the plate for them unless it’s also to bash Sutter! What of the article “outing” MAS that Sutter linked to in his piece? Should we all wait for attacks on them just because Sutter linked their site?
Why don’t you guys go back to inflaming all of the infidels and bringing out MORE hatred of Islam in your corner of the web. You’d never have even noticed this AT ALL had it not been written by Sutter from what I’ve seen in your comments. Go on now, go turn more people into brain-washed haters.
Sphinx, the most hopeless thing about all of this is that no one has even bothered to offer any proof of MAS’s legitimacy. HAHAHA! And I do mean what I said, any attacks on Sphinx are on me as well and will be dealt with accordingly.
1)They “use a tremendous amount of obscenities on other sites.”
If so then why doesn’t he provide references? Why, because he made it up, of course. As I pointed out before, that’s what he does.
If you scroll up, you’ll find the sad individual “reformislam” swearing a bit. After a while, I had to delete a comment for not refraining from cussing, despite me having warned them.
And it’s more extreme over here. The same person came up with “Retarded inbred”, “demented goatf***er”, “c***sucker”, “Islamonazi f***”, “s**tbag”, .. Is this use of profanity natural? The two deleted comments are from the same person, because I warned them again that if they didn’t stop, I’d weed out all further comments.
For a person accusing me of not being a real Muslim and of being an Islamonazi f***, in spite of not knowing me and me being as far away from nazis as they get, I can only explain this behaviour as coming from a deep, passionate hatred towards faithful Muslims.
2)They don’t always use the “required peace be upon him” when referring to Muhammad.
Neither did Bukhari or Ibn Ishaq… or most of the Muslims that I have ever spoken with. That’s because it isn’t a requirement. Sutter made this rule up as well.
Umm.. No. Where I come from, “peace be upon him” is uttered by virtually every Muslim at any incident where the Prophet’s name (pbuh) is uttered. In fact, it’s a very strange feeling to say it and not follow it up with this phrase. In any Friday sermon, any mention of the name from the Imam’s side leads to a constant murmur of this phrase throughout the entire congregation.
Besides, in every prayer (which is obviously a requirement), any Muslim says “God bestow peace upon Mohamed, and the people of Mohamed, just as you bestow peace upon Abraham and the people of Abraham” a few times.
Sutter did not make any requirements up.
3)They want to “rewrite the Qur’an” which Sutter says is a “holy book delivered from God to an angel to Muhammad.”
But wait, I thought Sutter claims to be a Christian minister. If so, then how can he also believe that God curses Christians for believing in the Trinity (Sura 5 and 8)?
It’s up to Sutter to decide whether he wants to accept the Qur’an as the words of God or not, but somebody who doesn’t believe in the Qur’an can surely know how Muslims view it (namely, as God’s word sent down to humanity), and can poise the legitimate question, on why a Muslim would tamper with the scriptures he’s supposed to believe in by definition.
But to solidify this point, here I am as a Muslim asking the same question: Why on earth would a self-proclaimed Muslim ever want to rewrite the scriptures that said Muslim should believe came from God? If you will play God’s editor, you might as well stop masquerading as a Muslim.
“As for the rest, I will be glad to address anything else that you want to raise from the piece – provided that it doesn’t qualify as “ad-hominem” (out of respect for your aversion to such illogic, of course).”
I have no remarks to add, but you’re welcome to bring up further points to talk about.
“By the way, I don’t mind your having identified me without asking, but it would probably be wise to respect the WordPress privacy policy in the future.”
You’ll understand if I felt wary of trusting you, but you’re right. I apologize. And I have to commend you for being the first one (here or on the other blog I linked to) to address Sutter’s post directly.
I don’t know that the blogger ID is genuine. Sutter has contacted me using e-mail aliases in the past and waged his “censorware” campaigns with aliases as well. Sometimes he pretends that he always uses his real name. Other times he publicly brags about his “infiltration” activities.
With me, he once pretended to be a Muslim who defended slavery and pedophilia. Another time he masqueraded as a nut who wanted to form a terror cell and kill Muslims.
I guess if I had more time, then I would look into the ID to see if it is genuine. I can’t dispute it at the moment, but I do not see why someone would demean themselves with such language.
As for point 2, I would just point out that it is perfectly fine in Islam to talk about Muhammad in the historical sense without using pbuh each time. Again, I would appeal to the Hadith, which seems to do this most of the time. (Also the Shahada).
With regard to point 3, Sutter is claiming that the Qur’an is the word of God. You’re right, that is his prerogative. The problem is that by offering this as truth, he is disregarding the Trinity, a fundamental tenant of his own religion. Again, it makes no difference to me if he wishes to omit certain Bible passages, but he has no right to then claim that one cannot be a Muslim and seek to omit certain passages from the Qur’an.
Look, I won’t belabor the issue further. I mean you no harm, my friend – otherwise I wouldn’t be warning you about this con artist. I believe that honest disagreement is a wonderful thing, but a worthy cause never requires lies.
Take care.
Glen,
Sutton is a lying piece of s*** which is hardly worth your time. [Strange that nevertheless you lot just can't get enough of him now, can you.. - ed.]
Well, the blogger ID seems legitimate, because if you click on it, you get the profile linking to all their blogs. Worst that could happen is somebody hijacked this blogger profile, but with a group so large and so active, what are the odds?
You also made this point: “He has no right to then claim that one cannot be a Muslim and seek to omit certain passages from the Qur’an.”
If this were the only aspect, one could debate to what extent somebody can be a Muslim a bit more critical of his own religous sources, but it’s not restricted to this. This fellow didn’t even say the shahada, despite being asked several times to do so, and prove that his title as a “Muslim” is correct. It’s indisputable that you cannot call somebody a Muslim if they refuse to utter the most simple testimony of their faith, which doesn’t even exclude belief in other prophets, i.e. Abraham, Moses, Noah, Jesus, .. (pbut). On the very contrary. You can be a Muslim who doesn’t pray regularly or doesn’t follow the teachings of Islam very closely, but if you don’t believe that there is only one God, and that Mohamed (pbuh) is one of his messengers, then you simply cannot call yourself Muslim.
So as debatable as the point on the Qur’an is, by his words this individual left no reasons to believe that he really is one, especially after calling my Christian co-blogger Lex an “Islamonazi”
Anyway thanks a lot for this discussion, and I surely care about honesty in everything I say. As far as I’m concerned, the points made against MAS so far have been honest, regardless of everything else.
Take care
Glen keeps making these claims that I’ve sent him phony email, yet I’ve challenged him over and over, for over a year now, to produce the originals, with full headers, and guess what? Nothing in the response to the challenge. Not a single thing.
As I’ve told others, my emails and my posts are always signed by my real name, I take particular care in this, because I stand behind everything I write. I even offer everyone I expose the opportunity to refute what I write, an opportunity seldom offered in the blogosphere. Only one person (Daniel Pipes) has used that opportunity, using facts to show an error, and I promptly corrected the post and publicly apologized for the error. No one else, not a single person, has ever disputed what I’ve written about them. It should be noted that I don’t consider ad hominem attacks or “anti-Sutter” web sites as factual disputes of what I’ve written. A dispute is where facts are used to refute the facts that I have posted.
TO Glen & Lady–if you are still here even, that is, those seemed like farewells, I have a question regarding the article by Sutter. In his article, he links to another article questioning the legitimacy of MASh from an atheist site, Free Thinker. This site seems to have no connection to Sutter, he just found it in his search for anything online about MAS. So how is that somehow proof of Sutter being inaccurate in his questioning of MAS, as it was already out there, as proof that others have questioned MAS’s credibility? Can you guys forget for just a few seconds your hatred of Jim Sutter and take a serious look at the claims against MAS? That of all people Pamela Geller is a member of the blog/group (this is also covered in the linked article)? Just look at the information out there as it is, the “award” given to a man who compares the Qur’an to Mein Kampf (Geert Wilders), the other absurd posts at the MAS blog, the Free Thinker article, the list of contributors to the MAS blog, etc, including the MAS Awards category (especially the giving of this award to Wilders). Then check out Pamela Geller’s writings about Wilders, all of them highly praising him and not all just recent or over his recent controversy. Nothing a bit fishy there?
Sphinx, I like what you said about the mention of Muhammad (PBUH) and the “murmers” of praise in the congregation, as it’s almost identical in Catholic Mass except with the Priest saying frequently, “Peace be with you” and everyone responding automatically, “And also with you”. I wish you lived anywhere close to me, perhaps even in the same hemisphere….LOL…so that we could share our religious services with one another.
Glen–I have a rather odd question (odd in that I feel strange asking it, but also odd because it’s another assertion by Sutter regarding you). You have told me where you live before, something I won’t repeat, but something Sutter claims is false on your part. I check my Site Meter very closely, mainly to keep track of the quite lewd MAS poster lately (whom I now know his/her location). I have, however, not seen a single hit from the entire state you have told me that you live in. Did you perhaps move, or was Sutter correct about this being an oft told lie by you? Because if Sutter’s assertion is correct, then it calls into question anything you ever told me in our correspondence of quite a long time ago. Please tell me this isn’t true, I’d like to know that at least ONE person from the “counter-jihadi” movement I knew when I was (spits) a part of that “movement” was actually honest with me.
“the points made against MAS so far have been honest, regardless of everything else.”
The main point against Muslims Against Sharia is that we are not Muslims. There is not a single shred of evidence that corroborates that point. All claims are based on opinions, rumors, and innuendos. And the only people who state opinions as facts are retarded dumbsh**s or lying c***suckers, like mane of the posters above. [Think of any children watching! - ed.]
If you want all the innuendos and rumours to stop, you can proceed to debunk half of them by announcing your Shahada, here and now. A real Muslim would never see this as a coercion, but as the most natural thing in the world.
Go ahead and do it. Once we have that behind us, we can talk about why I still think you’re a bunch of clowns.
“If you want all the innuendos and rumours to stop, you can proceed to debunk half of them”
F*** you, you stupid s*** [Oh darling, how I love you too! - ed.]. I’m not going to lower myself to debunking rumors. As for Shahada, read religious privacy clause from our Manifesto.
That’s all you needed to say. Thank you. I have a little present for you up in the original post.
You have a “manifesto” and it includes NOT saying the Shahada in front of others? Not saying the Shahada but blogging with Joe Kaufman and Pamela Geller?
Reform, you got some ’splainin to do…
For additional information, see: http://www.chasingevil.org/2009/03/follow-up-to-non-muslims-against-sharia.html
“Reform, you got some ’splainin to do…”
Which part of “nobody owes you anything” don’t you understand, you retarded c***sucker [You're quite a piece of work - ed.] with overblown sense of entitlement?
After going through the MAS goals and manifesto, I just have one simple question: Why did you insist on calling it “MUSLIMS against Sharia”?
Sharia is based on the Koran and Sunna; by changing that you are actually removing the main basis of the whole religion. How can you still be referring to Islam and calling yourselves Muslims then?
You could have simply come up with a completely new religion; e.g. “the ultimate new religion” or something; that would make more sense.
“Islam, in its present form, is not compatible with principles of freedom and democracy.”
“Sharia Law must be abolished, because it is incompatible with norms of modern society.”
Very interesting point. So God, in your opinion, was incapable of creating a religion that would be compatible with the norms of any society of any century and therefore you, human beings (I assume), will have to do so.
Funny question, who are your followers supposed to worship then: the God who is pictured rather incompetent by you or the reformers themselves who are willing to fulfill what God did/could not?
reformislam looks like Kaufman to me. He used to leave comments like that all over YouTube.
Wow … I just wanted to say, Sphinx, that I’m sorry your faith is being mocked this way. It’s completely inappropriate.
I have some idea about the sentiment, having seen a number of faux-Christian sites that parody Christian doctrine. Whatever point these people have, they could surely make it better by simply being honest about who they are. So, they oppose Sharia.
Then … be people against Sharia, rather than trying to pretend to be Muslims.
I would have no problem identifying my denomination (Conservative Baptist) and my church (Durham Evangelical – Durham, NH) if anyone asked.
To Lex:
Unless Sutter has edited his article again, he is claiming that I am from Alaska, which is true (and hardly a big secret). And, although I didn’t save all of our email, I do recall that when I first mentioned this to you, you took it to mean that I still lived there. Evidently, I trusted you enough to correct this misperception, however, since I have an e-mail showing that by March 1, 2006 I was complaining to you about life in the Southeast.
To Lex and Sphinx:
First, I apologize if I have offended either one of you, as it was not my intention. Since “(Non-) Muslims against Sharia” is largely an ad-hominem attack, I assumed that the credibility of the author was a legitimate topic.
Secondly, if you have a problem with my website, then don’t just throw stones from a distance. Examine it closely to determine what it is with which I really take issue, then, if you have a valid critique to offer, start a new thread here where we can have an open-minded discussion. I promise to offer my time and be entirely receptive to any corrections or modifications that are proven necessary – by fact and not mere opinion, of course.
To Jim Sutter:
Sure, Jim. I’ll pretend to take what you say seriously and (once again) try to take you up on your offer (particularly since you are too embarrassed to respond directly to e-mail). Whether your buddies admit it or not, they are beginning to have second thoughts about you, so here is your opportunity to stave off the inevitable (for a few more days, anyway).
Now, as you know, the Phony Rev site always links to government sources and the Cleveland Plain Dealer when referencing your criminal history. So, when you claim that I am under “federal indictment” for “money laundering,” where is your proof? And, why are you still taking wild guesses at my “real identity?”
“Secondly, if you have a problem with my website, then don’t just throw stones from a distance. Examine it closely to determine what it is with which I really take issue, then, if you have a valid critique to offer, start a new thread here where we can have an open-minded discussion. I promise to offer my time and be entirely receptive to any corrections or modifications that are proven necessary – by fact and not mere opinion, of course.”
Thanks Glen, very rare to have somebody this sincere, and I admit that I was too quick in judging you, for which I apologize. For me though, now isn’t the time to get started on this horribly wide topic, for the next weeks, probably even months, I have a Bachelor’s thesis and a new semester to cope with
One day though, I’ll take a big batch of time and write down an atrociously long piece on a Muslim’s perspective on various topics, in order to shed a new light on things, and speak out about the stuff people have long claimed that Muslims remain silent about.
Once it’s done (and please don’t expect it during the next couple of months), I’ll tip you off so we can talk about it. In the meantime, you’ll find my e-mail address in the “Who I am” page if you want to drop me a line.
Thanks for passing by!
“Glen” wrote: “Unless Sutter has edited his article again, he is claiming that I am from Alaska, which is true (and hardly a big secret). And, although I didn’t save all of our email, I do recall that when I first mentioned this to you, you took it to mean that I still lived there. Evidently, I trusted you enough to correct this misperception, however, since I have an e-mail showing that by March 1, 2006 I was complaining to you about life in the Southeast.”
What I wrote is that “Glen” claims to be from Alaska, (and I proved a link to that claim from him) and I thoroughly disproved it, at least under the name he uses of “Glen Reinsford.” I then went on to prove that he lives just outside Atlanta, GA, and to show what his real name is. I also have his IP addresses and the IP address of the proxy server he uses when viewing my site in an attempt to avoid being seen (psst… it doesn’t work).
“Glen” also wrote: “Whether your buddies admit it or not, they are beginning to have second thoughts about you, so here is your opportunity to stave off the inevitable (for a few more days, anyway).”
Good to see you’re entering the psychic business now. Perhaps you should try playing the lottery?
Nah, I must have misunderstood, but I never had planned to come and stalk you, Glen! I’ve also never picked on your site and still like the CAIR side of it. We don’t really throw stones, we’re a pretty in-your-face outfit. The exception is Pamela Geller, who quite a ways back, before I ever started govvs, when I just started questioning her about our beliefs and expressing my doubts about it all, blocked me. She turned hostile towards me from pretty much the first doubting mails I’d sent. Got her hackles up and dug in those heels and stayed on the attack after that. Then blocked my email addresses. And my posting on her blog. Now comments at YouTube. As I cannot reach her personally, I mock the living hell out of that woman. Same with Spencer after he told me I was shaming “my ancestors who were victims of jihad”. That led to a mail onslaught in which Spencer finally just declared me a “smear artist” and “liar” and said that I was just like Sutter and we were both “gnats”. After that kind of hate mail it’s just easier to mock. But then you know that, as you use mockery quite a bit at TROP. Oh yeah, and I tried to keep Charles Johnson not angry at us so much, but he blocked my IP address after I mailed him letters that pertained to him. Blocked my IP!!!!
The funny thing to me is how writers in the “counter-jihadosphere” constantly talk about the horrors and death and such that apostates from Islam face, yet are almost worse if one of their colleagues leaves the scene! I frankly don’t care what they think of me. I tried to drag them away with me for one thing. Not TROP though, you never wrote me about all of this with angry, hateful emails or comments on my blog(s). It seemed to me like TROP wasn’t involved at all with the Vlaams Belang/Brussels Summit/”you’re a nazi”, “no YOU’RE the nazi” pissing match between these other blogs. I just didn’t check. I’d always liked you so I just stopped reading your site, afraid that it would make me angry or something. Once I read Pamela’s blog it actually helped my change of heart and mind, it’s just so hateful. I’d rather not have too many former colleagues in the “we hate and are not speaking” category.
OK, I went WAAAAYYY to long on that response. That’s just me there though, I’m not speaking for Sphinx in any of this. I do agree though, especially after the seemingly unending comments from MAS, that this is a much healthier and decent way to communicate. I prefer civil debate to bad arguments and prefer both of those to MAS’s comments…HAHA! Anyway, as I was saying, too long, I’m off now;)
Lex
To Jim,
I haven’t checked your article since you edited it after being asked to by an attorney for one of the companies that you were slandering, but I have never claimed to live in Alaska, only that I am from there. If you don’t know the difference, then check a dictionary.
So who is it that you are pretending I am these days? I can’t keep up with your many guesses. Am I Robert Spencer, yet? No wait. He’s supposed to be Hugh Fitzgerald… or is it OJ Simpson?
Well, here’s the important part. Your criminal history is plainly detailed on Phony Rev with links provided to government and newspaper sources. Again, I am taking you up on the challenge you just offered to the readers of this blog. Back up your allegation that I am under indictment for money laundering and wire fraud by providing the same sort of official evidence.
Will you dodge this again, Jim? If so, then a mind-reader really isn’t necessary to know what others are beginning to think of you.
To Lex,
I wouldn’t care if you converted to Islam and joined Ahmed Bedier’s harem. As I told you before, I accept you regardless. I’ve changed my own mind about so many things in the past (a nice way of saying, ‘been proven wrong’) that I am not about to throw anyone under the bus for believing whatever they feel is right at the time, whether I agree or not.
(BTW, if you want to test my credibility against Jim Sutter’s, then all it takes is five minutes and 42 cents. Just follow the instructions on Phony Rev’s “26 years in the military” link to send an FOIA request for his military record. You will receive exactly what he is accusing others of forging. Then you will know without a doubt who he really is.)
Glen–I always thought you were the one person who didn’t give a shit that I had a major change of heart and mind on this. The only thing you’ve ever written to me protesting is involvement online with Sutter, and that was when I wasn’t even sure where I was headed on the mission I’m now on. I didn’t even really know until more recently what the IBA crowd thought, and they are pretty upset, at least Pastorius. I daresay you don’t need to worry about me getting together with Bedier as just friends, but especially as more than friends. We did run into him at an Obama event though, and we turned out to have more access than him. He was just another random guy in the crowd. HAHA! Some big-shot, eh? Then again, I proved on my own that that guy was lying through his teeth, but looking back on it the people who went to my blog to condemn him are people I consider rather lower than him on the online totem pole.
Listen, I don’t know what to think about either of you guys, both leaving me messages and such saying the other is the one lying. I really hate this fight, to be honest. I could click on too many links from both of you and never really learn the truth, at least that’s how it seems. When you first gave me links, Glen, I did click on them and read that stuff. It just didn’t affect my view of what Sutter’s doing now. He supports my site though, and thinks my bad photoshops are funny, like this Pamela or others. Stop by my place some time. The Robert Spencer story was, IMHO, breaking news…LOL.
I just don’t know what to make of all of the anger is all, Glen. And I always know when it’s you. You left that Anonymous comment at LGFWatch the second Sutter left a comment there. The second Sutter does anything online, even leaving a comment, you show up. Why are you that obsessed with him, and how do you even find these stray comments or his?
At any rate, thanks for not wanting to toss me out or getting a Lex voodoo doll as so many seem to have done…LOL….no one seems to realize that I’ve done a 360 and not a 180 here. I’ve just come full circle. My early blogging was the 180. But then you always knew that I was no conservative and you remembered it too, unlike some bloggers who conveniently forgot and accuse me of a complete change. Heavens, I was using the name of a gay man in my old Blogger name. At least you understood that about me. As for Sutter, I like the man. I like you. Please don’t ask me to take sides in this fight of yours, and if you do ask, please do so in mails. I’m still at the same one.
Thanks,
Lex
Who is Khalim Massoud and what does he really do and does anyone really care?
2 Comments »
1) —– Original Message —–
From: Khalim Massoud, Muslims Against sharia
reformislam@gmail.com
To: wbi@comcast.net PI Bill Warner
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Law suits, ain’t this grand
Are you threatening me, you little biatch? You must have been sucking cousin dad’s xxxx for too long, if you really think that a demented piece of sxxt like you could scare anyone. And if you weren’t that stupid, you’d know that if you’re a Christian or a Jew, we’re praying to the same God, you retarded inbred. Also, you unhealthy fascination with larva is troubling. You should discuss it with a shrink at the free clinic, you dumb piece of white trash (Bill Warner).
From: Khalim Massoud reformislam@gmail.com
You know this sure does not sound like the words of a moderate Muslim (Khalim Massoud) to me, more like a nazi skin head.
pibillwarner | March 16, 2009 |
2) —– Original Message —–
From: Khalim Massoud reformislam@gmail.com
Muslims Against Sharia
To: BW (Bill Warner)
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject:Re: Law suits, ain’t this grand
You told on me, you little piece of sxxt (Bill Warner)? Obviously a little biatch like you is too much of a chicken sxxt to handle anything herself. I am surprised that you haven’t dug up the “fact” that I’m not a real Muslim, etc. etc. etc..
You (Bill Warner) must have been excessively molested as a child to feel that insecure at your advanced age. Ever considered counseling?
Khalim Massoud
President
Muslims Against Sharia
reformislam@gmail.com
241732 PO Box, OMAHA, NE 68124
pibillwarner | March 16, 2009 | Edit
See the whole sordid exchange at http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2009/03/16/who-is-khalim-massoud-and-what-does-he-really-do-and-does-anyone-really-care/
Bill Warner
private investigator
wbi@comcast.net
Classy..
Nice to see that Bill is joining rank of Sutter and similar filth.
Hey, I take a shower every day!
FBI INTERNET CRIME COMPLAINT FILED AGAINST KHALIM MASSOUD AND MUSLIMS AGAINST SHARIA.
http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/fbi_internet_crime_complaint_filed_against_khalim/
Business Name:MUSLIMS AGAINST SHARIA First Name:Khalim Last Name:Massoud Gender:M Address:PO BOX 241732 City:OMAHA State:Nebraska Country:United States Zip Cod:68124 Phone Number:6104372221 E-mail Address: reformislam@gmail.com Other Identifiers Web Site: http://www.reformislam.org
Bill Warner
private investigator
Two deranged individuals, Jim Sutter and Bill Warner, are joining forces to defame Muslims Against Sharia. Before you buy into their lies and distortions, please consider the sources: http://www.phonyrev.com/ & http://insanepi.blogspot.com/.
A bit rich for the person who successfully accused every single person on various blogs of being c***suckers and demented pieces of s*** to be complaining about defamation.
Here’s another chance to debunk all accusations, and don’t ruin it for the 48th time. I must remind you though, mere profanity only reinforces them. Kind of reminiscent of the infamous “Behead those who insult Islam” sign wielders’ mentality..
Aw, how cute, you set up and entire website to slur Bill Warner. Who would be so obsessive-compulsive to do such a thing?
If you think it’s defamation, then prove it. Prove that the facts I posted are wrong by using factual refutations.
Spinster, I never accused you of being a c***sucker, I described you as being one [Oh hardy har har - ed.] . You must be too stupid to understand the difference, which is hardly a surprise.
Maybe you just didn’t get it, so here it is again:
If somebody says that you swear too much while saying nothing of substance, and you try to prove him wrong by swearing too much while saying nothing of substance, then you are on the same mental level as extremists who go all violent after being told that they’re violent..
I’m not telling you to stop though, you’re providing some high-class entertainment to all onlookers here. Do carry on.
Spinster, you are the one who didn’t get it, so here it is again. You ARE a c***sucker. Calling you a c***sucker is not an insult, it’s an accurate description. Just as when you see a piece of s*** and you call it s***, it is not an insult? Get it, you dumb c***sucking piece of s***?
Listen, I’ll probably forgive you if you can prove you’re a Muslim by saying the Shahada (psst.. It’s on my new site header up there, so you just have to copy it), and then we can move on. But refuting the blame of swearing too much by swearing too much is just hilarious in a very, very tragic way.
You should thank Allah that I’m nice enough to leave your comments standing. But then again, you might as well cuss at me a bit more, because I’m letting you humiliate yourself even further.
“I’ll probably forgive you”
What’s with the delusions of grandeur? Get over yourself, you insignificant piece of s*** [They used to call them 'public nuisances'.. -ed.].
YEEES, “insignificant” I am indeed, which explains why you just cannot get enough of me and keep returning to my blog! Now how’s that for logic?
“You’re a nobody! You’re completely worthless! Nobody loves you, nobody can even care about you, and the biggest idiot would actually give you any attention, and I will keep coming back to tell you this over and over again!!” ( <- My impression of you.)
I thankfully have no delusions of grandeur, however when blithering dimwits like yourself just cannot behave themselves on somebody else’s blog and lack any kind of common decency, I have a right to feel a bit ticked off by such behaviour. Have you not even a shred of shame?
“قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم:”المسلم من سلم المسلمون من لسانه ويده
Figure out what that means, and then you’ll know why I don’t think you’re a real Muslim.
“which explains why you just cannot get enough of me”
You are a worthless piece of s***. My comments are for people who might accidentally stumble upon your blog looking for ME.
“Figure out what that means”
That means that you are pretentious c***sucker trying to pretend to be a native Arabic speaker.
“My comments are for people who might accidentally stumble upon your blog looking for ME.”
You’re not exactly doing yourself a favour by showing the world what kind of sewer-mouthed cretin you are. Should anybody be lucky enough to find this individual, Khalim Massoud, via my blog: Let it be known that he is a sewer-mouthed cretin. But thread through the whole thread, and you’ll see for yourself.
“That means that you are pretentious c***sucker trying to pretend to be a native Arabic speaker.”
FAIL. You were probably seething to much to realize that I AM a native Egyptian, and that Arabic is my mother’s tongue. In other news:
كفاية غباء يا واطي. ربنا ينتقم منك والأشكال اللي زيك
Sphinx, you wrote: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم:”المسلم من سلم المسلمون من لسانه ويده”
Figure out what that means, and then you’ll know why I don’t think you’re a real Muslim.
LOL You are so correct!
“You were probably seething”
Seething at a piece of s*** like you? Your delusions of grandeur are hilarious!
I know I’m just an average nobody, but if you really think I’m that insignificant, why do you keep coming back?
Then again I think you have a crush on me.
reform–leave Sphinx alone. You really think Sphinx doesn’t speak Arabic? You moron.
“I know I’m just an average nobody, but if you really think I’m that insignificant, why do you keep coming back?”
If you weren’t a c***sucking retard who edit comments, you’d see the answer in one of my previous comments.
“Then again I think you have a crush on me.”
Sure, because I’m the f***ing idiot who posts articles about you on my blog.
*Looks back* If you weren’t such a lewd fellow with such a filthy vocabulary, I wouldn’t feel obliged to edit out your swearing. And unless you consider “C***sucker!!” to be a real argument, I will simply disagree that you made any valid point so far.
And hey, it’s a free internet, so you’re more than welcome to bring on some real reasons and evidence why I’m wrong. So far you’ve just called me naughty names, proving one of the main points made against you – for which I must be thankful naturally – but have done literally nothing to prove me wrong. So when I call you a bunch of clowns, and you come here in full clown-mode, then this is an open and shut case.
I second Sphinx’s suggestion. Unless this moron actually tries to debate or defend MASh, then screw him. Remember the “don’t feed the troll” etiquette of blogging? I think it’s called for here. Don’t encourage this little shit or it’ll prattle on all day here. Don’t give him/her/it the satisfaction, Sphinx. Let the bugger suffer in our silence.
“C***sucker” is not an argument, you dumb f***. It’s a description of monkeys like you who suck c***s. [It's called 'projection'.. - ed.]
See new article at: http://www.chasingevil.org/2009/03/muslims-against-sharia-resort-to.html
Thanks for the update!
Poll: Who is a dumber liar?
- Insane P.I. Bill Warner, who claims that MASH is run by al-Muhajiroun, a radical Muslim group
- Phony Rev Jimmy Sutton, who claims that MASH is run by JDL, a radical Jewish group
- It’s a tie: these examples of infinite stupidity cannot be told apart
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/
I claim MASh is not run by practicing Muslims.
Disprove that.
I second Sphinx’s claim. Answer this for us, we aren’t Sutter or Warner, we’re asking out of our own suspicions.
It will be straightened out in two ways, MASh. First, both Warner and I have filed complaints with the FBI. Since these complaints allege terrorist activity, you can bet they’ll be investigated. Secondly, it’s no secret that Warner is going to sue you – he’s already posted this on his site. During discovery you’ll have to answer interrogatories and depositions under oath, so the truth will come out there, too.
“I have filed complaints with the FBI”
You are a lying piece of s***. We both know that if you filed a complaint with an FBI alleging terrorist activity, you’d go to prison for lying to the FBI.
“I claim MASh is not run by practicing Muslims.”
F*** you, maggots! How dare you doubt claims made by Insane P.I. Bill Warner?
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/insane-pi-7-8-bill-warner-is-attempting.html
Worst counter-argument in the world, first of all, and secondly you need to get your questions right. You’re the one doubting Bill Warner’s claims, not me.
Furthermore, if you really want me to trust you and YOUR claims, it takes a lot more than just cussing at me. Maybe a bit of common decency would be of order..
“Maybe a bit of common decency would be of order..”
Are you out of your f***ing mind? A dumb c***sucker attempts to defame MASH and expects a nice response? What the f*** have we ever done to you BEFORE you started badmouthing us?
Honestly. Just refute the claims by US, not Warner, not Sutter, just ours.
Sphinx, how about a next story on these buggers about how they do nothing but cuss at people who ask questions about “organization”?
Again, it’s not a defamation before you can refute it. Prove me wrong on every accusation, and I will apologize and delete this entire post. You have my word.
Here are the points again:
1) MAS are not really Muslims to begin with.
2) In fact, MAS would probably abolish Islam completely if they had the chance.
3) MAS parrot wingnut propaganda that smear all Muslims and everything Islamic.
4) MAS encourages and applauds people who compare the Qur’an to Nazi propaganda and want to banish Muslims from Western societies.
Give it your best shot.
Give me one good reason why I should refute claims made by dumb c***suckers or repeated by dumb c***suckers or why should I give a f*** about what they think?
If you really don’t care that much, then why were you whining and moaning just three comments upwards? And if it’s so unimportant to you, why do you keep coming back? Can you get more inconsistent and self-contradicting than this?
There is enough evidence to support to my claims against you, all has been listed down from the very beginning. All you’ve done to support your position is behave like a little brat.
Decide now whether you want some intelligent debate and try to prove me wrong for once, or whether you really don’t care and just leave this place, but don’t give me this two-faced bullcrap. After putting up with this for almost 2 weeks straight, I’m just this close from making this decision for you.
Only biatches like you whine and moan. I post responses on this s****y blog on the off chance someone stumbles here by accident. I have no illusions about your comprehension abilities.
Even f***ing morons like you should realize that Phone Rev’s and Insane P.I.’s claims are mutually exclusive [Newsflash: They are not the same person. - ed.] . But you’re too f***ing stupid to understand that proving the negative is logically impossible. Can any of you prove that your cousin-dads didn’t molest extensively you and your stupidity is the result of that molestation? No? Well, that must mean it is true.
We’re still waiting for you to proclaim the Shahada.
Keep waiting, you c***sucking s***bag
Muslims Against Sharia and Khalim Massoud align themselves with Chechen wanted terrorist Ahmed Zakayev who orchestrated the Moscow theater siege.
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/muslims-against-sharia-and-khalim-massoud-align-themselves-with-chechen-wanted-terrorist-ahmed-zakayev-who-orchestrated-the-moscow-theater-siege/
Some Chechen Democrats publicly express solidarity with the Muslims against Sharia“,who and actively play into their hands.
Thus, former Foreign Minister of former CRI (Chechen Republic of Ichkeria) Akhmed Zakayev, a wanted terrorist, who lives in London,now works closely with the most odious periodicals.
On March 19 he gave an interview to Front Page Magazine, as well as to the already mentioned website “Muslims against Sharia“ run by Khalim Massoud, which are waging frenzied informational war against Islam, calling the religion of Allah “Islamo-Fascism”, demanding to ban Jihad, to reduce the Koran and to abandon the Sharia.
Akhmed Zakayev, 47, a field commander in the first Chechen war, he was accused by Russia of involvement in planning the Moscow theatre siege and of taking part in other terrorist acts between 1996 and 1999.
Terrorist Birds of a Feather !
Muslims Against Sharia Resort to Cyberstalking, Defamation & Harassment of PI Bill Warner
ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW ON “MUSLIMS AGAINST SHARIA”
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/muslims-against-sharia-resort-to-cyberstalking-defamation-harassment-of-pi-bill-warner/
Muslims Against Sharia (MASh) have now put up a cyberstalking, defamatory website, full of nasty allegations but not a scintilla of truth against Private Investigator Bill Warner, who runs just one of the numerous websites that have exposed the MASh site as run by members of the JDL, a banned terrorist organization. (ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW, Warner feels they are Muslim linked terrorists)
Warner has also filed a complaint with the FBI against MASh.
See: http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2009/03/notice-of-intent-to-file-suitgoogle-and.html
MASh is using the same technique as “Glen Reinsford” of thereligionofpeace.com, who along with convicted human trafficker Jeanette Runyon, put up a cyberstalking and defamatory website against Rev. Jim Sutter in retaliation for exposed their hate mongering in his chasingevil.org website. In this way, MASh have endorsed Reinsford, who was previously exposed here as an anti-Muslim, White Supremacist racist. Reinsford has also endorsed MASh on his site.
See MASh use “attack the messenger” tactics, instead of trying to disprove any of the facts written about them, at http://muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com/2009/03/defamation-campaign-against-mash.html
Note that MASh has been offered over a dozen opportunities, on multiple websites, to refute any of the facts written about them, and all they do in return in send obscenities and threats. The only person making even a half-assed (but unsuccessful) attempt to defend MASh is Reinsford. Why would an obvious Muslim hater who calls for outlawing the religion of Islam come to the defense of a site proven to be extremist Jews who are posing as Muslims and posting highly inflammatory articles about Islam? The answer’s rather obvious, isn’t it?
Moderate Muslims a Oxymoron, Khalim Massoud of “Muslims Against Sharia” Claims To Be Moderate But Posts Radical Profanity Filled Lies On The Internet
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/moderate-muslims-a-oxymoron-khalim-massoud-of-muslims-against-sharia-claims-to-be-moderate-but-posts-radical-profanity-filled-lies-on-the-internet/
A perfect example of the Moderate Muslim who is a fraud is Khalim Massoud of “Muslims Against Sharia” who has began a campaign to silence PI Bill Warner from exposing his illegal activities. Khalim Massiud uses the email address of info@reformislm.organd spews his profanity laced comments and lies all over the internet. Moderate Muslims, no such thing, see an interview he did last year;
Libertarian Republican: Interview with Khalim Massoud of worldwide Muslims Against Sharia
ANDREW: Being classified as a “moderate” Muslim is that something which bothers you? Do you agree ?
MASSOUD: Not at all. I think “moderate Muslim” is a descriptive and widely accepted term.
But then Massoud posts radical profanity laced tirades on the internet, such as;
info@reformislam March 18, 2009 at 23:45 Says……….
Spinster, you are the one who didn’t get it, so here it is again. You ARE a c***sucker. Calling you a c***sucker is not an insult, it’s an accurate description. Just as when you see a piece of s*** and you call it s***, it is not an insult? Get it, you dumb c***sucking piece of s***?
Which brings me (Bill Warner) again to the the online attacks by the author of the “Muslims Against Sharia” aka Khalim Massoud with a email address of reformislam@gmail.com and info@reformislm.org who has Defamed, Lied and Intends to cause an interruption of Bill Warner’s business, WBI Private Detective Agency, by posting libelous messages, is Khalim Massoud linked to the al-Muhajiroun group, same name calling, profanity laced email tactics are being used ????
JDL or Al-Muhajiroun, who knows but Moderate Muslims Agaisnt sharia, what a joke, look at the filth he posts on this website !
Others have written about The Fraud Of “Muslims Against Sharia”, see the take of the “Another Point of View” blog here;
“Muslims Against Sharia” (or MAS; I will not link to them), a self-proclaimed moderate Muslim organization (with a blog), has taken into the habit of trolling progressive blogs in order to spew their “serious, civil, nuanced and thoughtful” right wing nut insanities. I became aware of them back in January, when “they” decided to pick a fight with Balbulican over at StageLeft – and of course only demonstrated their incompetence and simple-mindedness in so doing.
Khalim Massoud, Samir Khan and Yousef al-Khattab fronts for al-Muhajiroun ?
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/khalim-massoud-samir-khan-and-yousef-al-khattab-fronts-for-al-muhajiroun/
March 20th 2009, In today’s FamilySecuritymatters.org article written by Adrian Morgan.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2802/pub_detail.asp
The terror group al-Muhajiroun is exposed with all their internet links, Mr. Morgan quotes PI Bill Warner numerous times in the article. Over the last 3 years PI Bill Warner has had extensive interaction with pro al-Qaeda Jihadists Samir Khan in Charlotte NC and Yousef al-Khattab and the Islamic Thinkers Society in New York City who spew their anti-American bile on the internet 24-7 and appear to be mouth pieces for al-Muhajiroun.
Just last year there were Main Street Media Articles on WBTV Charlotte NC concerning Samir Khan in Charlotte and private investigator Bill Warner’s expose of his activities, see here and video here.
This month, other media outlets, the Brooklyn Ink and the Huffington Post had stories about Yousef Al-Khattab in Queens NY and linked private investigator Bill Warner’s attempts to shut down his Jew-hate website, see here and here
Both Samir Khan and Yousef al-Khattab are subjects of an ongoing FBI investigation, and Yousef al-KHattab is under NYPD surveillance 24/7 thanks to the efforts of private investigator Bill Warner, see here. “Khattab acknowledges that he is under surveillance and that the police have visited him on a few occasions, but Khattab is not afraid of being arrested.”
Both Samir Khan and Yousef al-Khattab have sent threatening emails to private investigator Bill Warner and Samir Khan posted a death threat about private investigator Bill Warner on his website and on YouTube, see here and video here.
Pajamas TV Sharia & Jihad, just last week, did a show with private investigator Bill Warner called “Shutting Down Terrorist Websites“ on goons like Samir Khan and Yousef al-Khattab see video here. Also see expose on al-Qaeda website in Tampa Fl by private investigator Bill Warner video here.
Now comes along (after the above articles were made public on the Internet) what appears to be another one of their ilk, Khalim Massoud who has followed the same line of threatening emails filled with profanity and pure idiotic nonsense.
I have deleted all of the emails sent to my website by Khalim Massoud but he has taken the same line of attack with others who post anything about him, see The Fraud Of “Muslims Against Sharia” and see here and here .
Khalim Massoud claims to be the president of a group called “Muslims Against Sharia” in Omaha NE., but there is no such organization listed anywhere in the USA, No corporation, No D& B reports, No listing as a Charity by the IRS, No business license, No physical address, nothing and yet the website http://www.reformislam.org/contact.php set up on 9/11/2001 to collect “donations” to fight Islamofacists (none caught yet), keeps on soliciting and collecting “donations” ?
Are the online attacks by the author of the “Muslims Against Sharia” aka Khalim Massoud with an email address of reformislam@gmail.com who has Defamed and Intends to cause an interruption of Bill Warner’s business, WBI Private Detective Agency, by posting libelous messages, linked to the al-Muhajiroun group or another Muslim terror group bent on shutting up PI Bill Warner, same tactics are being used !
Numerous al-Qaeda linked Fronts were set up on the internet after 9/11 to collect “donations” with the funds received from USA citizens going to support the very people who “knocked down those building in New York City on 9/11″, see here.
Khalim Massoud claims to be a Moderate Muslim, but as the notorious bigot Geert Wilders has repeatedly said ‘There is no moderate Islam,’ says far-right Dutch legislator Geert Wilders“, the Koran needs to be banned and all Muslims deported from Holland, and yet Khalim Massoud supports bigot Geert Wilders, something very odd going on here Khalim, there is no place for you in Geert Wilders world but keep collecting those donations, whoever you really are….
IRS, US Secret Service and FBI Cyber complaints have been filed on the ”Muslim Moderate“ Khalim Massoud.
I have never posted, claimed, spoken or implied that I have hatred for the Jewish faith nor given the impression that anyone would write “Bill Warner, The Anti-Semite”, and an assortment of other lies as posted by Muslims Agaisnt Sharia and Khalim Massoud of Omaha NE on his website and two blogs.
Muslims Agaisnt Sharia and Khalim Massoud of Omaha NE have posted numerous articles on the internet Defaming Bill Warner and his business.
Notice of Intent to File Suit;
TO: Muslims Against Sharia (not a Nebraska corporation).
Khalim Massoud and all assumed names.
Members of Muslims Against Sharia, et all.
PO Box 241732
Omaha, NE 68124
TO: Google (via Fax, Email & USPS)
Administrative Contact
DNS Admin- Google Inc.
1600 Amphitheatre Parkway
Mountain View
CA 94043 US
dns-admin@google.com
+1.6502530000
Fax: +1.650-618-8571
FROM: Bill Warner
WBI Private Detective Agency
Sarasota Fl 34233
941-926-1926
http://www.wbipi.com
Notice of Intent to File Suit;
The author of http://insanepi.blogspot.com/ who goes by the name of “Muslims Against Sharia” aka Khalim Massoud with an email address of reformislam@gmail.com and info@reformislam has Defamed, Lied and Intends to cause an interruption of my business, WBI Private Detective Agency, by posting libelous messages and outright lies concerning Private Investigator Bill Warner, see his most recent post of 3/19/2009 at this link http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/demons-of-bill-warner-lies.html and here Insane P.I.: Bill Warner, The Anti-Semite
Author : reformislam (IP: 68.96.25.80 , mx.tennisschoolofomaha.com)
E-mail : info@reformislam.org Khalim Massoud
Who is : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=68.96.25.80
I have worked on several Muslim related support of terrorism investigations (which resulted in the arrest of several Muslim individuals) for an assortment of US Federal Agencies and I shut down 17 al-Qaeda linked recruiting websites in 2008 to 2009, thus incurring the rancor of several terrorist related Muslim groups..
I have never worked for or have had any business dealings with “Muslims Against Sharia” aka Khalim Massoud, nor do I know this person on a personal basis. If Google persists in keeping this website up http://insanepi.blogspot.com/ , I will include Google in the Law Suit COMPLAINT.
I am filing the COMPLAINT in Sarasota Civil Court against “Muslims Against Sharia” aka Khalim Massoud (NOT HIS REAL NAME) seeking damages in excess of $15,000 for comments such as “Bill Warner, The Anti-Semite”, “This blog exposes lies and insanities of Bill Warner possibly the worst private investigator in the State of Florida” and “I think that every potential client of Bill Warner should read this article before hiring him” and “Tuesday, March 17, 2009, The Demons of Bill Warner Lies, contradictions, and outright insanity”
Bill Warner
private investigator
Bill Warner’s bullshit: “I have never posted, claimed, spoken or implied that I have hatred for the Jewish faith”
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/bill-warner-anti-semite.html
Since this website was created, we received quite a few emails. Most of them expressed support for Muslims Against Sharia, Pamela Geller, and Geert Wilders. Some of them expressed outrage at Bill Warner. But an email received yesterday was the best. It came from one of Bill Warner’s potential client.
A couple of years ago, a Jewish lady needed some surveillance done and was waiting for Bill Warner, when she “overheard him screaming into the phone: “if it weren’t for this fu..ing [edited] neocon Jews who control this maggot [president Bush], we wouldn’t be in this mess [Iraq].” Naturally I got up and left.” The lady asked to us not to reveal her identity due to Bill Warner’s reputation of being “petty and vindictive” and that she “don’t need more troubles in my life.”
Bill Warner must have pissed off a lot of people by his incompetence and intolerance, so there is a chance this email is a hoax, though it does fit the pattern. Assuming the email is true, it certainly explains Bill Warner’s crusade against Pamela Geller (a Jew) and Geert Wilders (a staunch supporter of Israel.) Isn’t it ironic when Bill Warner accuses Geert Wilders of being a Nazi while he is himself an anti-Semite? However, again, this fits Bill Warner’s pattern of behavior. He accused yours truly of “TERRORISTIC THREATS” and “DEATH THREATS” after writing “You need to pray to your god that you never show up in the same room as me, ever, you maggot !” and “I know who your are and where you all live”. I understand the notion of offense being the best defense, but sooner or later the truth always comes out.
Bill Warner’s Islamophobia:
- “Moderate Muslims a Oxymoron”
- “I (Bill Warner) totally agree with Debbie Schlussel , she hit the nail right on the head again, it is all a fraud, a Muslim fraud, there are no Moderate Muslims, the notorious right wing Dutch MP Geert Wilders profusely claims there are no Moderate Muslims and he wants to kick them all out of Holland, somewhat dramatic but I get the point.”
After declaring that there are no moderate Muslims, this shithead attacks Geert Wilders and calls him a Nazi for a lot more mundane statements. How much of an idiot one should be not to see the irony?
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/insane-pi-9-double-standard.html
Another claim by the village idiot: “Muslims Against Sharia Resort to Cyberstalking, Defamation & Harassment of PI Bill Warner”
The moron claims that he is being harassed, while sending actual threats:
- “You need to pray to your god that you never show up in the same room as me, ever, you maggot !”
- “I know who your are and where you all live”
It looks like Billy’s IQ is somewhere between a cockroach and a house plant.
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/bill-warner-anti-semite.html
“Muslims Against Sharia and Khalim Massoud align themselves with Chechen wanted terrorist Ahmed Zakayev who orchestrated the Moscow theater siege.”
Ahmed Zakaeyv is accused of orchestrated the Moscow theater siege by Putin regime (which probably has absolutely no political reason to discredit its opposition /s), but the dumbs*** P.I. states it as a fact. If you read the whole post on Insane P.I.’s blog, you’ll find out that he accuses Berezovsky (a Jew) of supporting al Qaeda. Which is not surprising, since this degenerate fused al-Muhajiroun with JDL.
http://insanepi.blogspot.com/2009/03/more-idiotic-claims-from-insane-pi-bill.html
Our buddy Khalim here said:
“Only biatches like you whine and moan. I post responses on this s****y blog on the off chance someone stumbles here by accident. I have no illusions about your comprehension abilities.”
See, no valid counter-argument to disprove the fact that in one comment he’s complaining about “defamation”, and in the other, he stands above all what people say about him.
Actually, I wish people who are searching for you stumble on this thread to see for themselves what kind of pathetic individual you are. Even Glen remarked on this further up:
“I guess if I had more time, then I would look into the ID to see if it is genuine. I can’t dispute it at the moment, but I do not see why someone would demean themselves with such language.”
You were given enough chances to behave like an intelligent human being, but insisted on parading your crippling ignorance for the world to see. People might find this if they searched (as of now, googling “Muslims against Sharia” has this very thread as its 21st result), so you might get your publicity. I also removed your silly “nofollow” tag from the link to your own blog, as that’s probably what you want. But I’m not dignifying you with any more fame if you insist on littering this place with your filthy language devoid of any creativity (I got it already, we’re all c***suckers).
From now on, you are persona non grata on this site. Spare yourself any further comments, on this and on any other thread in the future, because even though I might read them for the laughs, they will get summarily deleted, instantly.
Alrighty then..
You can all see that the deranged comments from the so called Khalim Massoud of the “Muslims Against Sharia” are increasing and his intent to silence PI Bill Warner has intensified all over the internet!
Let it be known, that I have reversed searched the PO Box number used by the Muslims Against Sharia in Omaha ME since 2001 when they popped up online begging for donations after 9/11 to fight Islamo-Facists, what a joke.
There have been only 3 men who have used the Omaha NE PO Box number that is posted on the Muslims Agasint Sharia website, these 3 same men have had the same PO box since 2001 the same time frame when MASh showed up, no other people have been assigned the PO box since 2001.
I have obtained the physical address of all 3 of these men who appear to have initiated the Muslims Against Sharia PO Box, one of them still lives in Omaha, and I am aware of the professions of two of the men, yes they are professional people with at least MB degree’s, what a joke again.
Mr. Warner, you can’t be much of a PI if you repeat the defamation of Mr. Sutter who has been convicted once for telling a false story to the FBI resulting in the false arrest of an innocent person.
You have posted Sutter’s lies about me that I was arrested tried and convicted of human trafficking. Shame on you. You didn’t even bother to find the truth yourself.
I am underwhelmed with your “integrity”!
Your claim of innocence sure fails when reading the coverage of your Ukrainian baby-buying attempt, forging her birth certificate, being arrested by the Ukrainians and imprisoned in the European media – several articles of which are posted on my site. I’ve also got your own complaints about Ukrainian prison life posted.
It’s a good thing that the little girl was taken from you and is now being cared for by the town Mayor’s secretary. Many people were wondering what a 56 year old Satanist with a 21 page long criminal history that includes violence wanted to do with a newborn baby.
How long has it been since you’ve taken your anti-psychotic medicine?
From the language he uses in two emails he sent PI Bill Warner RECENTLY, there does appear to have been just a little bit of inbreeding with Khalim Massoud (not his real name), such a sad life.
2 Comments from Khalin Massoud president Muslims Against Sharia
—– Original Message —–
From: Khalim Massoud reformislam@gmail.com
To: wbi@comcast.net Bill Warner
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: Law suits, ain’t this grand
Are you threatening me, you little biatch? You must have been sxxking cousin dad’s xxxx for too long, if you really think that a demented piece of sxxt like you could scare anyone. And if you weren’t that stupid, you’d know that if you’re a Christian or a Jew, we’re praying to the same God, you retarded inbred. Also, you unhealthy fascination with larva is troubling. You should discuss it with a shrink at the free clinic, you dumb piece of white trash (Bill Warner).
From: Khalim Massoud reformislam@gmail.com
You know this sure does not sound like the words of a moderate Muslim (Khalim Massoud) to me, more like a nazi skin head.
Bill Warner
Comment by pibillwarner | March 16, 2009 | Edit
—– Original Message —–
From: Khalim Massoud reformislam@gmail.com
Muslims Against Sharia
To: BW (Bill Warner)
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject:Re: Law suits, ain’t this grand
You told on me, you little piece of sxxt (Bill Warner)? Obviously a little biatch like you is too much of a chicken sxxt to handle anything herself. I am surprised that you haven’t dug up the “fact” that I’m not a real Muslim, etc. etc. etc..
You (Bill Warner) must have been excessively molested as a child to feel that insecure at your advanced age. Ever considered counseling?
Khalim Massoud
President
Muslims Against Sharia
reformislam@gmail.com
241732 PO Box, OMAHA, NE 68124
Comment by pibillwarner | March 16, 2009 | Edit
First Name: Khalim
Last Name: Massoud
Gender:M
Address:PO BOX 241732
City:OMAHA
State:Nebraska
Country:United States
Zip Code:68124
E-mail Address: reformislam@gmail.com
IdentifiersWeb Site: http://www.reformislam.org/
IP Address:216.193.128.54
IRC Server:Enter.Net
The Muslims Against Sharia and Khalim Massoud, who uses a false name there is no Khalim Massoud listed in the USA as per the commercial data base I use, also appear to be the subject of a FBI/US Postal Investigtion into unlicensed requests for donations over the interent. There are 3 people listed at the PO Box 241732 in Omaha NE used by the “Muslims Against Sharia” and none of them goes by the name of Khalim Massoud.
The 3 people listed at the PO Box 241732 in Omaha NE that links to the Muslims Against Sharia, have had the PO Box since early 2001, the same time frame as when the Muslims Against Sharia website came on the internet, see their blog Tuesday, September 11, 2001 when they first started requesting donations, “Please find enclosed my check, made payable to Muslims Against Sharia”.
Follow Up to (Non) Muslims Against Sharia; A quick follow up to our expose of the non-Muslims running “Muslims Against Sharia”, which has received a phenomenal amount of coverage and almost as much hate mail from the people over at MAS (who cannot seem to send a single comment without obscenities and who seem to know almost nothing about Islam): Considering MAS’s constant request for “donations”:
The IRS has no record of MAS as a non-profit or charity. See: http://www.hddweb.com/WWW0/95376/IRS_search_MAS.jpg
The State of Nebraska has no record of MAS having any sort of business license, which is required in order to solicit donations to their Neb PO Box.
The State of Nebraska requires anyone soliciting funds to be registered and licensed with the State.
Guidestar, a national listing site of non-profits, shows no results for “Muslims Against Sharia.”
The West Omaha branch of the U.S. Postal Service, at 8451 W. Center Rd, in Omaha, NE 68124-3135, confirmed that PO Box 241732 is rented in the name of Muslims Against Sharia, in reviewing the rental application, it was found that MAS listed themselves as a Nebraska corporation with a business license.
The USPS was informed that MAS has no business license, and is not incorporated in NE. An investigation will ensue. Listing fraudulent information on a USPS PO Box application is a violation of 18 US Code, Section 1001 and of 18 US Code Section 1708.
PO Box 241732 Omaha, NE 68124-3135 is rented in the name of Muslims Against Sharia and 3 individuals and has been since eary 2001.
KHALIM MASSOUD AND MUSLIMS AGAISNT SHARIA MADE UP THE FOLLOWING STORY, TOTALLY FABRICATED AND DEFAMITORY AND POSTED SAME ON THE INTERNET, THIS WILL BE THE BASIS FOR MY LAW SUIT.
ALL OF DIRTBAG KHALIM MASSOUD’S FACTS ARE WRONG, WHAT OFFICE, WHAT JEWISH LADY, WHEN DID IT HAPPEN, WHO TOLD YOU, WHERE DID IT HAPPEN, WHAT CITY, WHAT DAY, YOU UNSPEAKABLE LIAR !
THE WHOLE “MUSLIMS AGAISNT SHARIA” THING IS A TOAL FAKE, JUST ANOTHER SCAM TO COLLECT “DONATIONS” !
Bill Warner, The Anti-Semite http://www.sarasotaspeaks.com/node/36993
Since this website was created, we received quite a few emails. Most of them expressed support for Muslims Against Sharia, Pamela Geller (ORIGINALLY LISTED AS A MEMBER OF THIS FAKE GROUP), and Geert Wilders. Some of them expressed outrage at Bill Warner.
But an email received yesterday was the best. It came from one of Bill Warner’s potential client. A couple of years ago, a Jewish lady needed some surveillance done and was waiting for Bill Warner,(THERE IS NO WAITING ROOM OPEN OFFICE) when she “overheard him screaming into the phone: “if it weren’t for this fu..ing [edited] neocon Jews who control this maggot [president Bush] (I VOTED FOR PRES BUSH), we wouldn’t be in this mess [Iraq] (I SUPPORT THE EFFORT IN IRAQ).”
Naturally I got up and left.” The lady asked to us not to reveal her identity due (THE FACT SHE DOES NOT EXIST) to Bill Warner’s reputation of being “petty and vindictive” and that she “don’t need more troubles in my life.”
Bill Warner must have pissed off a lot of people by his incompetence and intolerance, so there is a chance this email is a hoax (OF COURSE IT IS DIRTBAG KHALIM MASSOUD MADE IT UP), though it certainly fits the pattern. Assuming the email is true (NOT TRUE), it certainly explains Bill Warner’s crusade against Pamela Geller (a Jew) and Geert Wilders (LINKED TO NEO NAZI GROUPS) (a staunch supporter of Israel.)
Isn’t it ironic when Bill Warner accuses Geert Wilders of being a Nazi while he is himself an anti-Semite (BILL WARNER BELONGS TO A LOCAL JEWISH GROUP IN SARASOTA FL)?
However, again, this fits Bill Warner’s pattern of behavior. He accused yours truly of “TERRORISTIC THREATS” and “DEATH THREATS” after writing “You need to pray to your god that you never show up in the same room as me, ever, you maggot (THAT IS SO TRUE MR MASSOUD, SOME DAY WE WILL MEET UP) !” and “I know who your are and where you all liv (ALL THE MEMBERS LINKED TO MUSLAIMS AGAINST SHARIA OF THE PO BOX IN OMAHA NE)”.
I understand the notion of offense being the best defense, but sooner or later the truth always comes out (IT WILL AT TRIAL IN THE UPCOMING CIVIL SUIT WHICH WILL REQUIRE “DISCOVERY” OF KHALIM MASSOUD’S FINANCES AND HIS “MEMBERS”).
We have a real (not a pompous ass with delusions of grandeur) investigator looking into authenticity of this email even as this article is being written. Will post an update as soon as it becomes available (KHALIM MASSOUD IS DERANGED). K.M.
By Muslims Against… at 2009-03-19 08:21 | culture | full article | 3 reads…(THAT IS HIS TOAL DAYLY READS FOR ANY DAY)
My article about MASh is number 9 in a Google search and climbing.
* The more often they and their only two defenders, (GR & JR) post trash about me or Warner,
* The more often they exercise their stupidity of headlining Bill Warner and me on their website,
* The more often people will come to our sites to read about them! ROFL
It’s amazing how often hate mongers put their mouths in Drive while their brain is in Park.
Another article on MASh coming soon!
You’re “Rolling on the Floor?” How is that possible, Jim? 14 years ago you told a group of disabled persons that you were in a wheelchair dying of terminal cancer:
http://web.archive.org/web/19970808071158/pages.prodigy.com/OH/zrjj15a/
I’ll be sure and look for you in Mother Jones… any day now.
Tuesday, March 24, 2009
Muslims Against Sharia Attempt to Shut Up Private Investigator Bill Warner, What Are They Hiding ?
http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2009/03/muslims-against-sharia-attempt-to.html
Muslims Against Sharia, a online group with dubious links, run by the so called President Khalim Massoud are running a full court press to discredit and shut up Private Investigator Bill Warner, I wonder why ?
The Muslims Agaisnt Sharia attacks started on or about March 16th and appear to involve some perceived afront to one of the listed original members of the Muslims Against Sharia, Pamela Geller of the Atlas Shrugs blog that thas just recently been labeled as a Hate/Discrimination website see here article, Friday, March 20, 2009.
ATLAS BLOCKED: TRUTH IS THE NEW HATE SPEECH UPDATE: GOVERNMENT BAN TOO, “your site was blocked for “Hate Speech”, her site appears to have been unblocked but who knows for sure.
Pamela (Oshry) Geller also appears to have had some very disturbing links to a open murder investigation in Long Island and a used car scam run at her ex-husband Michael Oshry’s used car lot, see NY Post article ‘CAR-SCAM’ LINK EYED”, “While probing the murder of car salesman Collin Thomas outside the showroom of Universal Auto World in Lawrence, L.I., in January, cops unraveled what they said was a massive scam at the dealership”.
Employees at Universal allegedly stole and bought identities, then used the IDs to obtain at least $1.3 million in financing for fancy cars, court records show. As part of the homicide probe, Nassau County police raided the dealership, owned by auto czar Michael Oshry, and Oshry’s Hewlett Harbor home and seized business records. His ex-wife, Pamela Geller, former associate publisher of the New York Observer and a conservative blogger (Atlas Shrugs), burst into tears when told her ex is under criminal investigation. Although listed in business records as a Universal co-owner, she denied it. “I have nothing to do with this,” Geller said (what is that, but I’m sure your legit
Mr. Warner, that’s all very well and good and I think we all know about Geller’s husband by now. Are you really planning to sue this group? And is Geller really involved aside from belonging to the blog? Joe Kaufman is also on the list, as his “Terror Free Oil” account on Blogger. Do you have more on their involvement?
I have had these little buggers on the joint blog I’m on with Sphinx and now they’re creeping to my blog though I have nothing posted there on any of these matters. All seem just to want to scream at Sutter. I think I’ll give him his own thread…LOL….whaddaya say, Rev?
Thank you for all of the added info about MASh, though I’m still a bit foggy about the details I mentioned above. As for the trolling, I don’t think any heed should be paid them unless they stop engaging in one sided screeds against Sutter.
TO..Lady Predator
Gender: Female
Location: United States
About Me
“Facts are stubborn things; and what ever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they can not alter the state of facts, and evidence.” -John Adams
LadyPredator
March 24, 2009 at 21:43
Mr. Warner, you can’t be much of a PI if you repeat the defamation of Mr. Sutter who has been convicted once for telling a false story to the FBI resulting in the false arrest of an innocent person. You have posted Sutter’s lies about me that I was arrested tried and convicted of human trafficking.
WHAT IS THIS ? NO LISTED ARTICLE ABOUT A LADY PREDATOR ARRESTED FOR HUMAN TRAFFICKING, WHAT A TOOL.
LadyPredator, who the hell are you ?
I have never posted anything with your name in it nor have I ever even heard of you, i do not post articles about people with assumed ID’s “Lady Predator”, what is your real name or are you too ashamed to reveal it. (KHALIM MASSOUD)
Please link the offending article about you written by private investigator bill warner… or are you just another fraud and a front for Khamim Massoud of the false posting Muslims Agasint Sharia who is/are banned from this site ?
Oh being coy? Just how many people do you accuse of human tracking? LadyPredator is my nic, and you have posted Sutter’s defamation about me and Glen. If you don’t know who LadyPredator is then I question you “abilities” as a PI!
So tell me why are you using a congenital liar as your source of information?
Mr. Sutter The source” for alleged criminal activity is himself a multiple felon (6th Circuit Court #1:94-cr-00010-SHB).Projection perhaps?
Mr. Sutter who claims that MASh is alleged evading taxes is a person who was caught cheating the IRS in three consecutive years (Cleveland Common Pleas Court #2003200305289086). Projecting again?
Mr. Sutter who claims that MASh is perpetrating religious deception is someone who has been masquerading as a Catholic priest and Baptist pastor for at least 17 years. More projection.
Jim Sutter a two time felon who projects his criminal behavior on others. On September 17, 1990, Sutter pled guilty to making false accusations (on which another person was wrongfully arrested) and was sentenced to 60 days house detention and three years probation.
Sutter was convicted of falsifying a police report in order to have this person arrested on false charges.
http://tinyurl.com/cnvctb
http://tinyurl.com/ddxuq4
Sutter past criminal history reveals that he who has committed the crimes of stalking, forgery, making false police reports, using interstate communications to make personal threats, (he uses his blog to defame persons who don’t conform to his “whims and wishes” also known as extortion)Credit Card theft, impersonating an Navy officer impersonating mental health professional. (see his separation from the Navy after eight months here http://tinyurl.com/c9vw7r)
Lady Predator is referring to this article:
http://www.billwarnerpi.com/2009/03/muslims-against-sharia-resort-to.html
She is asking why you are printing something that is false, if you are a private investigator with a reputation to protect – as you say in your apparent MASh lawsuit.
What you are saying about her is actually based on Jim Sutter’s false story that she was convicted of human trafficking. Here is the real sequence of events:
1) Lady Predator exposed Jim Sutter as a fraud in 2007 by publicly documenting the many false claims that he has made about his education, military record, and supposed terminal illnesses.
2) In revenge, Sutter researched LP and found that she had lost a daughter in a tragic car accident. This gave him the opportunity to invent a malicious and obviously untrue story that she had sexually abused her dead daughter in a Satanic ritual.
3) When LP went overseas to adopt a baby girl in 2008, Sutter found out that she was detained for not having proper paperwork, so he did his best to sabotage the adoption with the phony Satanist story. Not content with merely destroying a child’s future Sutter now pretends that LP is a human trafficker (just like he pretends to be a decorated combat veteran).
That’s really about it. Normally men do not treat women the way that Sutter does, but if you knew as the rest of us do then you would understand why he has no masculine pride.
So, what about you, my friend? Why are you printing Sutter’s bogus stories about people that you don’t know?
I see Bill Warner didn’t have the guts to reply.
Or maybe he just doesn’t have the time. Kind of explains my temporary silence as well.
Sphinx, you’ll note that I don’t answer Glen or Jeanette because I believe in the Web policy of “Don’t feed the trolls.” Serious obsessive-compulsive nutcases like these two will only continue to embarrass themselves and spam a discussion if you feed them.
Offending item/article removed, I still do not know who or what a LadyPredator is nor do I care, comments from people who do not use their real name, (cowards) will receive no reply !
MASh is using the same technique as “Glen Reinsford” of thereligionofpeace.com, who along with convicted human trafficker Jeanette Runyon, put up a cyberstalking and defamatory website against Rev. Jim Sutter in retaliation for exposeing their hate mongering in his chasingevil.org website. In this way, MASh have endorsed Reinsford, who was previously exposed here as an anti-Muslim, White Supremacist racist. Reinsford has also endorsed MASh on his site.
Jeanette’s human trafficking arrest is well documented in the European media articles posted on my site, for all her denials, at least the baby she tried to buy was taken from her, and is now in a loving, safe home in the Ukraine instead of with the nutcase.
Mr. Sutter You have no documentation. I dare you to produce such documentation. You links go no where. And one with two brain cells (something, I guess, Warner doesn’t have)can see that Sutter in fact is lacking one single piece of proof! I have more documentation on my webpage as to decades long history Sutter has of falsely accusing others of crimes, your impersonations and forgery. All you have is smears with links that are meaningless.
I on the other hand have court documentation of you crimes and convictions. Say Sutter please tell me where was I tried?
Warner’s repeating Sutter defamation about me and Glen Reinsford pretty much proves that he is in fact no “PI” but as poser just like Sutter who deals only in smears and yellow journalism.
PS Sutter was dumb enough to post that I was incarcerated in Butner, a **men’s** facility.
Which is similar to the post he made about me being an inpatient at metro state hospital in Calif. A place that I am retired from!
Alright people, as far as I’m concerned, this conversation is really going nowhere. So far nobody has produced a valid rebuttal of the points made against Muslims against Sharia, something I should be able to expect after 100+ comments.
I’m getting rather fed up with the whole mudslinging, so I’m leaving two days time for any on-topic (!) and intelligent discussion to ensue, or this thread is closed.
I guess Jeanette missed your call for “intelligent discussion”, yet again. It’s funny how so many hate mongers try to make themselves out to be victims, even human traffickers. The European news media accounts verify that the Ukrainian baby girl never was Jeanette’s daughter and never will be, since after she was taken from Jeanette (when Jeanette was arrested), the town mayor’s secretary adopted the baby. All media accounts are available on my site.
Sutter I should add that you are a vile man (and anyone who uses this man as a source of “information” is equally as vile)…..my daughter was taken by the SBU (formally the KGB) and **SOLD** to the highest bidder. I and my precious daughter are in fact the victims of human traffickers. First you use the death of my first daughter then you use this tragedy all because I disagreed with you politically.
Not only are you a stupid,ignorant man but you are an very evil man pretending to be a man of the cloth. May God have mercy on your soul.
There is very little to rebut as you have used SMEARS rather than facts. the only point that you have is (1)that Muslim agaist Shaira appear not to be Muslims in the traditional sense (an yes his foul languages really doesn’t help him much).
Everything else that Sutter “uncovered” is just smears without an single documentation to back it up!
So far no one has responded to Glen’s post and I repeat..
“According to Sutter, MAS has no business license. What this really means is that Sutter couldn’t find proof of it over the Internet – but let’s assume that it is true. From this, he makes the leap to saying that they are “soliciting donations illegally,” which you then breathlessly pick up on (much to his delight, no doubt).
In fact, the only way to “solicit donations” illegally is by claiming to be non-profit. Why? Because donors then mistakenly write it off on their taxes and the IRS loses revenue.
But MAS ISN’T claiming to be a non-profit – which even Sutter is now admitting. So he then moves on to claiming that they must have a business license to receive money. But this is also completely false. Since MAS isn’t selling a tangible good or service, contributions would not be considered a business expense counted against revenue.
Think about situations in which your parents have “donated” money to you, or you have given it to others – perhaps a friend or a stranger who asked for help, such as a family from church that was having a hard time. Was a business license required on anyone’s part? Of course not. Why? Mainly because they weren’t providing a service in return and there is no tax deduction involved (unless the recipient does happen to be a non-profit).
There is nothing illegal here. A transfer of funds without product or service provided in return is considered a gift, not a business transaction. No tax is required, provided the amount is less than $11,000. How MAS chooses to report this is a personal matter between them and the IRS – and one that, by law, Sutter would have no knowledge of (unless a public lien was placed by the IRS, as they did against Sutter himself on March, 25th 1995 for $6,135).
So, this is an example of what Sutter does. Being a hateful little man limited only by what he can embellish, Sutter takes a benign Internet fact and builds a fabrication around it that sounds legitimate enough to fool the very people who trust him. It is not an error on his part, but a malicious pattern that is employed pathologically to hurt others (and garner the respect so desperately craved by the unaccomplished).”
…..
“what evidence you have that MAS is soliciting donations illegally. I think you will agree that it is a serious matter to accuse someone of a crime, yet, as I demonstrated earlier, there appears to be absolutely no basis for this.”
Is MAS claiming to be a non-profit? Are they selling a good or service that requires a business license? I thought I did a pretty good job of debunking each of these, but apparently you know something that I don’t. So please tell me what it is.”
Alright, so there is no evidence that MASh has committed a federal crime, despite the strong impression conveyed in your original post. Even the part about “the State of Nebraska” requiring “anyone soliciting funds to be registered and licensed” is proven false according to the information available to anyone on the state’s department of revenue website.
Although I appreciate your coming clean on this, I guess the next question is, why? Do you think publishing false allegation helps or hurts your cause?
“And what is your cause, again? As I said, I don’t know MASh and have never communicated with them, but when I look on their blog, I see that they oppose female genital mutilation, terrorism, racial genocide against Africans and the execution of homosexuals and apostates. All things that I strongly oppose as well. I also see that they support free speech, freedom of conscience and women’s rights. All things that I strongly support.”
As per the phony rev’s standard operating procedures he lies then claims he has links on his webpage…only he doesn’t. I have in fact made several points…none of which have been addressed. He just repeats his lies over and over again with NO documentation. Just because Mr. Sutter makes a claim doesn’t make it so.
I have to wonder about the veracity of *anyone* who takes the world of a convicted felon, tax cheat, impostor, forger, and congenial liar.
FYI so far he has not presented one bit of evidence that I was arrested or convicted of human trafficking yet he keeps posting that fiction here on *YOUR* blog and by allowing yourself to be a co-editor of his defamation rag you open yourself to a lawsuit.
Nor is there any evidence that having asking for donations is illegal. There is also no evidence that the FBI is going to investigate MAS.
Sutter can get away with posting his lies because he has nothing.
“And what is your cause, again?”
Very simple: These pirates can do whatever the hell they want to do, but they should not call themselves Muslims. Period. The only member of that group with a Muslim sounding name has came here, barked out a torrent of lewd insults, and refused several times to say the Shahada. You just can NOT be a Muslim and refuse to say it, that just is. not. possible. They are taking the title of “Muslims”, because it enforces their position. Makes them look like they actually know anything about Islam, but at the same time our friend Khalim has demonstrated that he is simply too stupid to understand the Qur’an.
If they changed their title, I’ll be satisfied. They will evolve from a lying, fraudulent and ignorant hatemonger site to the collection of regular ignorant hatemonger sites. It’s not like there weren’t hundreds of them around.
“As per the phony rev’s standard operating procedures he lies then claims he has links on his webpage…only he doesn’t.”
Funny, after a brief search, I did find some links here, and here.
“FYI so far he has not presented one bit of evidence that I was arrested or convicted of human trafficking”
Actually that one link from a year and a half ago (by somebody who was defending you, for the record) in fact did say that you were arrested for child trafficking.
Debate that fact all you want, you denied that he provided any evidence, but in fact he simply did. So now what?
“yet he keeps posting that fiction here on *YOUR* blog and by allowing yourself to be a co-editor of his defamation rag you open yourself to a lawsuit.”
I’m sorry, come again? You’re threatening me with a lawsuit? First of all, good luck with trying to sue somebody living on an entirely different continent, in a country where people do not sue for any cock-and-bull thing they find upsetting.
Secondly, the “defamations” have been going back and forth. Do not claim that you haven’t flung a truckload of mud at Jim Sutter on this thread, and guess what? YOU started it. Right at this moment I cannot give half a damn which one of you is right. This personal flame war was started by YOU, so you’re the one sitting the the glass house when it comes to “defamation rags”.
And finally, if you think that your patronizing will shy me into taking back all the points I’ve made about MAS, you might as well try to teach a rabbit Italian, because the idiots have proven my (and Sutter’s) point better than we can.
That does it. Enough is more than enough, and this entire discussion is over.